Recently, Buffalo hosted leaders from the Deaf community in France as part of the International Visitor Leadership Program (IVLP) through the US Department of State. Among them was a notable figure in the French disability rights movement: Jérémie Boroy. Boroy serves as the advisor to the Mayor of Paris on people with disabilities and is the chairperson of the National Advisory Council for Persons with Disabilities (Conseil national consultatif des personnes handicapées). Boroy, who is deaf, has also had a hand in the creation and revision of French disability rights laws.
WBFO's Disabilities Beat Reporter Emyle Watkins sat down with Boroy during his visit to hear his thoughts on what our two countries could learn from each other in terms of disability rights and equity for Deaf people.
Boroy speaks French, so you will hear and read his answers translated to English by IVLP contractor Don Clark. Some questions were provided ahead of time and are read word-for-word to assist with translation and interpretation. American Sign Language interpretation was kindly provided by contractors supporting the International Visitor Leadership Program. The International Institute of Buffalo and Rochester Global Connections co-hosted this IVLP program visit to Buffalo, which focused on employment, education and immigration/refugee services for the Deaf community.
PLAIN LANGUAGE DESCRIPTION: The United States government has a program that allows professionals from around the world visit the United States to learn from our communities and to share their knowledge with our communities. This is called the International Visitor Leadership Program, or IVLP. Recently, the program brought a group of leaders from the Deaf community in France to visit a few cities, including Buffalo and Rochester. One of the people who visited is Jérémie Boroy. Jérémie advises the Mayor of Paris on issues impacting people with disabilities. Jérémie, who is deaf, also helped create disability law in France and is the chairperson of a national advisory organization focused on disability in France.
WBFO's Disabilities Beat Reporter Emyle Watkins sat down with Jérémie during his visit to Buffalo, to hear how he met the person who has the same role as him but for the City of Buffalo. He also talks about what he's learned from America's Deaf community, what America could learn from how France regarding disability, and what is still not accessible to deaf people in both countries.
This week's Disabilities Beat segment includes a full length video interview with American Sign Language interpretation and an English transcript, provided below. Jérémie speaks French and uses a laptop placed on the ground to provide him with captions, which he occasionally glances at. When he speaks French, you will hear his answers translated to English by Don Clark, who sits to his right. When Emyle speaks English, Don also translates that to French for Jérémie. Don does not translate all of Emyle's questions because some were provided ahead of time to help with interpretation and translation. To Emyle's left, and in the bottom left hand corner of the screen, is an American Sign Language interpreter who translates the entire interview for people who will watch the video. They are in a hotel common area.
VIDEO & AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE INTERPRETATION
TRANSCRIPT
Emyle Watkins: Thank you so much for making the time to talk with me. I know this has been a very busy visit for you. To start, could you tell me a little bit about you and your work in France?
Jérémie Boroy: Thank you. Thank you for your question. I'm 47 years old, I'm French and I am deaf. I have two jobs at the present time. I'm the advisor to the mayor of Paris, and I advise her on issues regarding handicapped persons. And the second position I hold is I'm chairman of the National Advisory Council on Handicapped Persons. That's a national position.
Emyle Watkins: Jérémie, you serve as an advisor to the mayor of Paris in a role that in the US we would likely call an Americans with Disabilities Act coordinator or ADA coordinator. I understand that you met with our local City of Buffalo ADA coordinator. What was that visit like?
Jérémie Boroy: It was a very interesting visit. I was really impressed by the building, [the] city hall building, which has so much history. It is a beautiful history that I think the people of Buffalo should be very proud of. I was able to have a discussion with the ADA coordinator for the city of Buffalo, and it was a very lively discussion. And we identified a number of areas that we have in common between the city of Buffalo and the city of Paris. I found that she really mastered very well her subject, and the opportunities that her position offers Buffalo and the mayor of Buffalo. And that the city and the mayor should become examples in the whole area of accessibility.
Emyle Watkins: And I know that you helped create France's 2005 disability rights law, that the United Nations recognizes as France's primary disability rights law. You've also helped develop significant revisions in policy since then. In your time in the US, have you noticed anything France could learn from the US or conversely where the US could learn from France in terms of accessibility and disability rights law?
Jérémie Boroy: This is not the first time that I've been in the United States. But each time that I've come here, I leave admiring very much the culture of accessibility which has been developed here, even if there is still a lot to be done here. A lot more can be done for Americans to have full access to their rights when they are handicapped. Here in the major cities, businesses, for example, are very accessible and well-equipped. I have the feeling that accessibility is seen as, even as, an opportunity, as a growth factor perhaps. This is not the case in France. Not yet.
In discussing with my counterparts, I noticed that we share a lot of the same frustrations. For example, in education for young deaf people, we noticed that the same opportunities are not ensured throughout the land. And we see that it's the same thing in France. We don't have many interpreters and professionals to make communication accessible. We learned that here in the United States, about 50% of deaf Americans are without jobs, don't work. And we have the same situation more or less in France. But I have the impression that here in the United States, there is just more opportunities to progress in the area of accessibility, even if in France we have a greater level of social protection. And that is reassuring to us. I also have the feeling that Americans are much more determined to protect their rights, and that's very reassuring.
Americans, for example, don't hesitate to go to court and to sue when their rights are not being respected. But I do unfortunately feel, I'm convinced, that while in France we need to resort more to the law and to litigation, to have our rights respected. And that is one reason why the American example gives me comfort. And I think that we can go forward on that area of using the law to have our rights respected.
But there is something that we have been able to do in France that I haven't seen here in the United States. And that is that we've been able to go more into detail in determining the different categories of deaf people and what they need. So the law in France distinguishes between the different ways of communication. French sign language, for example. Voicing the French language, which is complemented by signing vowels and consonants, for example. Cued speech, the French version of cued speech, simultaneous transcription. Here, in France, the communication is adapted to the needs of the person and I find that very reassuring in France.
In France, for example, one of the areas of progress we've made is to make the speeches by the president of our country more accessible to the deaf. When he speaks on television to the nation, the simultaneous interpretation appears, it's automatic, and it is true for all of the channels that are transmitting his speech. And this is true also of signing interpretation. We oftentimes will have two interpreters on the screen, and that will be true not just for the President's speeches, but for political debates, electoral debates as well.
Emyle Watkins: And you are the chair of France's National Advisory Council on Disability [Conseil national consultatif des personnes handicapées, or CNCPH], in addition to your work for the mayor of Paris and your work on legislation. Why is collaboration and exchange of ideas between countries so important when it comes to disability rights specifically? And how might this trip influence the work you do for CNCPH?
Jérémie Boroy: Collaboration is essential because we are all citizens of the world. Our shared histories, our respective histories, they cross paths frequently. So, the Convention on Handicapped Persons Rights of the United Nations [The Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities] is a charter that both France and the United States are a part of.
And then there are other areas that join us together as well. I'm thinking in particular of higher education. I think it's very important for French and all European students to be able to come to study in American institutions of higher learning. In particular, I'm thinking about the institute in Rochester [National Technical Institute for the Deaf at Rochester Institute of Technology] and Gallaudet [University]. And I also feel that it's very important for American deaf students to have the opportunity to come to France or to other countries of Europe, and that opportunity needs to be made more accessible to Americans. But in a much more general sense, it's simply the whole culture of accessibility and the defense of the rights of the deaf that has been so inspiring for me.
The National Advisory Council on Handicapped Persons has as its major mission, to advise the government on these issues. But I do feel that the French need to become more active, more involved in this culture that you have here of calling out the mistakes and the lack of respect of the law, and going to court. What is so important for us is that each individual handicapped person have the opportunity to defend his rights and ensure that his rights are respected. And that's an area where France and the United States can cooperate and collaborate.
Emyle Watkins: Now, I know those were the questions we pre-planned. I'm wondering if I can ask maybe two more questions that have come up.
Jérémie Boroy: [Agrees]
Emyle Watkins: Well, I know that the other guests [to Buffalo on the IVLP trip] that I spoke to, they also mentioned that fight for rights and equity. And I think it's interesting because you are someone who helped create these laws. Do you think that France still has a way to go in terms of enshrining disability rights in the law?
Jérémie Boroy: Of course. We are very far from the result we hope to obtain. The gap is still too wide between our law on protecting rights, guaranteeing those rights, and the United Nations Charter on the rights of the handicapped. There's a big gap there. France still sees deaf people as people who need to be cared for. There are laws to protect the rights. There is an enormous amount of money that's being spent in France on behalf of the deaf handicapped. But we don't yet see the problem as being individualized. We don't see the individual as having this problem, needing this help, possibly, having these responsibilities or these rights. We see them as a collective group rather than as an individual. We have in France, this culture that sees this group goes to this area, this home, or this group needs to be treated this way. And today we are fighting to get everyone included in the law, the common law, the law for everyone.
Emyle Watkins: It sounds like something our two countries have in common, is that the disability community in both countries is moving away from this idea of disability as a medical condition and more as a cultural group needing equal access.
Jérémie Boroy: Yeah, I think you said it exactly right. That's what brings us together. That's what makes us resemble each other. Yeah, what is fundamental? The main thing is accessibility. We need to ensure that the handicapped person, that has access to whatever service is out there for everyone. Whatever product is being offered, whatever activity is being encouraged, this is what we need to ensure. Accessibility is the key word.
Emyle Watkins: And as a final question, what has surprised you the most about this trip?
Jérémie Boroy: It's the fact that Americans do not hesitate to take the initiative. I've seen deaf people that have these amazing projects for themselves and they go after it. They really pursue their goals. They're not passive. They take the initiative. And what has struck me a lot is the fact that deaf people really do participate in trying to find the solutions to the problems of lack of accessibility. They have very, very strong personalities in that way.
Emyle Watkins: Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me. I wish I could talk with you all day because I think you have just a really incredible perspective on things. And it's been an honor to meet someone who has done so much to advance disability rights in France.
Jérémie Boroy: I was honored to have this exchange with you.
